This is an excerpt from an ongoing dialogue with an LDS. I find it interesting that doctrines given by LDS prophets / presidents are often changed later. Called myth, unofficial, theory, or unauthorized years later.“There was Brigham Young’s Adam God Doctrine,.. that is now refute and looked down upon.” It was never fully accepted to begin with, which is why it never became doctrine. Brigham Young never attained the 100% consensus in the Twelve that he had to have for the teaching to take the next step to becoming doctrine. Over time, it lost what support it had at the beginning, and in 1904 (after Brigham Young, Jr., the last surviving member of the Twelve who supported the theory as doctrine) passed away, Adam-God Theory was officially repudiated.
MY Statement-“There was Brigham Young’s Adam God Doctrine,.. that is now refuted and looked down upon.”
HOSTS Response -It was never fully accepted to begin with, which is why it never became doctrine. Brigham Young never attained the 100% consensus in the Twelve that he had to have for the teaching to take the next step to becoming doctrine. Over time, it lost what support it had at the beginning, and in 1904 (after Brigham Young, Jr., the last surviving member of the Twelve who supported the theory as doctrine) passed away, Adam-God Theory was officially repudiated.
So when a Prophet of the LDS Church speaks for God in this manner… they vote on whether or not it is truth? Now even Israel may have heard a Prophet and rejected it that is certain,, but they didn’t get an opportunity to VETO it or alter its truth. Lucky the LDS gets the option on whether or not to accept Gods truth.
Let’s look at some background on this issue…
There are some things you need to know.
- Brigham Young was the Second President and Prophet of the LDS Church.
- Biblical standards for a prophet are high: Deut 18:17-22 17 The LORD said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. 19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.” 21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.
Let’s look at this. Vs 18a- God raises him up. 18b- God gives him the words to speak. 18c- He will speak to the people the words of God. 19a- God will hold account anyone who ignores the words of the Prophet (the words of God). 20- If a prophets speaks out of turn, Israel was to END HIS LIFE. 21- How to identify if a prophet is speaking for God? 22- If his the words of the prophet fail to come true. It isn’t from God! Now see verse 20.’
- Rock and a hard Place-If the LDS want to claim Young as a true prophet, he must also accept his Adam-God teaching since a true prophet must have a correct theology concerning God (Deut. 13:1-3 and Deut. 18:17-22).OR….. If Young’s teaching is not accepted, then the Mormon must conclude that Brigham Young was a false prophet. The Mormon can’t have it both ways.
- · HOWEVER,….Young had a high opinion of his sermons- Apparently Young was confident with his message for on January 2, 1870, he said, “I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture” (Journal of Discourses 13:95). Brigham would repeat this again in October of the same year (Journal of Discourses 13:264).
Now compare this to what the Host has written once again? Do you see any inconsistencies?
Following a long one-paragraph introduction, Young proclaimed that Adam was Michael the Archangel, and that he was also the Ancient of Days. Young went on to conclude that Adam was, in fact, “our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do.
Please also know that in Mormonism,… Living Prophets hold more authority than dead prophets due to the fact that they are receiving New Revelation.
For years Mormon authorities have attempted to downplay the severity of Young’s statements. It is not uncommon to hear Latter-day Saints excuse Young’s conclusions by saying he was either misunderstood or even misquoted.
LDS Presidents Joseph Fielding Smith and Spencer W. Kimball attributed their predecessor’s ideas to being merely a “theory.” In his book Doctrines of Salvation, Smith discounted Young’s message by saying, “in all probability the sermon was erroneously transcribed!” (1:96).
SPIN and EXCUSES
It would be difficult for the Mormon to prove Young was only theorizing by the simple fact that Young, in this sermon, clearly claims his teachings to be “doctrine.”
In his journal dated February 19, 1854, Wilford Woodruff, who would later become Mormonism’s fourth president, wrote that Brigham Young “said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ — Our God was no more or less than ADAM, Michael the Arkangel (sic).”
Apparently Young’s position on the matter was still an issue with some LDS members; otherwise he would not have had to ask, “How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which is revealed to them, and which God revealed to me — namely that Adam is our father and God…Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or ever will come upon the earth” (Sermon delivered on June 8, 1873.
Printed in the Deseret Weekly News, June 18, 1873.)
How can a Latter-day Saint maintain this was just Brigham’s opinion when he insisted God gave him the teaching?
CANT we all just get along?
12th President Spencer W. Kimball
“We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some of the General Authorities of past generations. Such, for instance, is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine” (Spencer W. Kimball, “Adam-God Theory Denounced,” Church News, October 9, 1976, p. 11).
— Note that just 10 presidents later,… 103 years later,…. It went from words spoken by a Prophet of God,.. to words “allegedly” spoken, and yet in the same quote,.. a false doctrine. So tell me who is it that speaks false doctrines. A false prophet. So yet again,…
If the LDS want to claim Young as a true prophet, he must also accept his Adam-God teaching since a true prophet must have a correct theology concerning God (Deut. 13:1-3 and Deut. 18:17-22).OR….. If Young’s teaching is not accepted, then the Mormon must conclude that Brigham Young was a false prophet. The Mormon can’t have it both ways.
But Adam is not only God,.. he is also Michael the Arch Angel it would seem… man I need a tour guide to keep this stuff straight.
Basically there is no agreement or consensus on what is or is not scripture, doctrine, official or authoritative, and this is just one of many examples!
This sermon can be found in the Journal of Discourses 1:50-51.
My next sermon will be to both Saint and sinner. One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day. It is in regard to the character of the well-beloved Son of God, upon which subject the Elders of Israel have conflicting views. Our God and Father in heaven, is a being of tabernacle, or, in other words, He has a body, with parts the same as you and I have; and is capable of showing forth His works to organized beings, as, for instance, in the world in which we live, it is the result of the knowledge and infinite wisdom that dwell in His organized body. His son Jesus Christ has become a personage of tabernacle, and has a body like his father. The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Lord, and issues forth from Himself, and may properly be called God’s minister to execute His will in immensity; being called to govern by His influence and power; but He is not a person of tabernacle as we are, and as our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ are. The question has been, and is often, asked, who it was that begat the Son of the Virgin Mary. The infidel world have concluded that if what the Apostles wrote about his father and mother be true, and the present marriage discipline acknowledged by Christendom be correct, then Christians must believe that God is the father of an illegitimate son, in the person of Jesus Christ! The infidel fraternity teach that to their disciples. I will tell you how it is. Our Father in Heaven begat all the spirits that ever were, or ever will be, upon this earth; and they were born spirits in the eternal world. Then the Lord by His power and wisdom organized the mortal tabernacle of man. We were made first spiritual, and afterwards temporal.
Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken–HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, and thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did not appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal. When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father, and so on in succession. I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone. I have heard men preach upon the divinity of Christ, and exhaust all the wisdom they possessed. All Scripturalists, and approved theologians who were considered exemplary for piety and education, have undertaken to expound on this subject, in every age of the Christian era; and after they have done all, they are obliged to conclude by exclaiming “great is the mystery of godliness,” and tell nothing.
It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Again, they will try to tell how the divinity of Jesus is joined to his humanity, and exhaust all their mental faculties, and wind up with this profound language, as describing the soul of man, “it is an immaterial substance!” What a learned idea! Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.
I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now remember from this time forth, and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. I will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon this subject, when I replied, to this idea–“if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children, to be palmed upon the Elders by the people, bringing the Elders into great difficulties.”
Treasure up these things in your hearts. In the Bible, you have read the things I have told you to-night; but you have not known what you did read. I have told you no more than you are conversant with; but what do the people in Christendom, with the Bible in their hands, know about this subject? Comparatively nothing.