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Leno, The President and Missing the Point

Indiana Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock’s comments that pregnancies caused by rape are “something God intended to happen” echoed across the U.S. media and sent ripples through political circles ahead of the November 6 election.

I didn’t see it but recently the President was on Jay Leno and the conversation got around to a comment by Senator Richard Murdock concerning rape. Now I have to say I understand his sentiment, but would change at least one word. I would change “INTENDED” to “ALLOWED“.

Intended indicates that God wanted to bring about life in this manner. I do not believe that this is the case and it is not consistent with the nature of God as he has revealed himself.

Allowed indicates that although, it is not what God intended, due to the sinful and fallen world we live in, rape is a way children are brought into our world and God does indeed for know each child who is born REGARDLESS of HOW they are conceived.

Let’s see the Senators comment in context:

“Richard Murdock said: “I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God, and I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something God intended to happen.”

— Mourdock’s position and struggle is basic, how could a good God allow this horrible situation of rape to happen? Can a gift and triumph come from trauma? He seems to have struggled and decided that it indeed can happen, although he may not understand how or why it happens this way, only that it did. Did God ORIGINALLY intend for violent rape to be the method for our children to come into the world? Of course not, he is not saying that. The President and others are simply looking for a platform to gain a standing during the final moments of an election.

Here is what the President stated:

“I don’t know how these guys come up with these ideas. Let me make a very simple proposition: rape is rape. It is a crime,” Obama said on NBC’s “The Tonight Show.”

— Thank you for pointing out the obvious. Yes it is a Crime. So why are we Punishing the Child?

— Abortion is Abortion. It is murder and SHOULD BE A CRIME! It ends and Life and creates at the LEAST two victims!

He goes on to state that:

“This is exactly why you don’t want a bunch of politicians, mostly male, making decisions about women’s healthcare.”

— Last I checked, it takes two to create a child, how is it only a woman has a right to decide the fate of THEIR child in matters regarding the life of the child?

Sadly, Obama shows he has NO concept of God, Theology or Doctrine, I don’t like the wording “something God intended to happen” as if God is an accessory to the crime, however, this child was going to be a product of these to people. Was this God’s intended method, I don’t think so, but this child WAS meant to be.

— Then for him to even talk about Planned Parenthood as if it is an organization that HELPS women. Really? It is the biggest provider of legally sanctioned execution of women! Really sad!

Senator Richard Mourdock

Just Saw This!!!

Last night on the Jay Leno show, Obama claimed AGAIN that PP provides mammograms (this is the third time he’s lied about this).  Perhaps between the debate last week and now, they started providing them?  Let’s call and find out! TOMORROW, we will once again call Planned Parenthood and ask about their mammogram services.  We had over 2,000 people make calls last time.  Let’s get more this time!  Here is the link to our event:



Clashing Problems in Mormon Doctrine Pt 1.

Christ Mormon

Christ Mormon (Photo credit: More Good Foundation)


These are some inconsistencies that were posted by another who gets the credit for some great arguements, however, since I do not know them nor have their permission to give their name, I will not.

If you are an LDS,… how would you tackle these questions?



Alma 45:13-15 states that the believers began to be called Christians before the birth of Christ (73 B.C.) Acts 11:26 says the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Which is it, it cannot be both.

Getting Kids to Talk

Don’t in the Battle and Lose the War! I have learned the hard way, it gains you little if you force the conversation well before your kid is ready. This doesn’t mean the get to avoid the conversation all together, especially if it is an issue of discipline, but give them more than two seconds to think about an answer before you demand they answer. When you relax, they will relax and conversation will come.

Be Advantageous! Car rides are a great place for conversations, they can’t walk out of the room or avoid your presence. Don’t allow video games or other toys to interfere with your opportunity to talk with them.

Are you Approachable! Are you open and inviting? Do you even listen? You kid could tell me if I asked! Want to improve? Use a common technique in counseling, simply reflect back, or in your own words, repeat back what you hear your kid sharing with you. This helps your son or daughter to know “Hey,.. I am being heard!” and sometimes that is all the motivation they need to keep going.

Can I get that Validated please? You daughter comes home and is angry because her best friend is going to ditch her birthday party to go out to the movies with a guy she likes and she is very angry. Before you tell her how to or how not to feel,… validate how she Does feel! Let her know it is reasonable for her to be angry, hurt and frustrated. Listen to her pain and validate her feelings. This will go a long way in the future, when you want to talk or when she does!

Quantity of Quality? “I don’t have a lot of time with my Kids, but when I do give them that 10 minutes a day, I am all there!” Is that you? Kids need quality and quantity time today. If you are not there to talk to,… they will find someone else,… I wonder who it might be? You can NOT substitute one for the other, provide both. Slow down and be available. Kids know if you are too busy for them, and it is impacting on their self worth. If you’re creating enough down time for you to get together with your kids on the little things, they’ll be more open to confide in you in the future about the big things.

Forward Momentum. Talk to them while being active. Talk and walk, let them, shoot hoops, toss the ball, play catch, color, or draw a picture. Using these activities to allow your kids to express themselves can have them expressing themselves to you as well. And joining in on the fun yourself can yield an even greater sense of connection and sharing between you and your kids.

Depression, Addiction and Self Injury Oh My

This is some great information, from “To Write Love on Her Arms” who has compiled the stats.

Diminished mental health and the attempt to compensate for it is costly today. Not only, emotionally, but relationally, financially, and spiritually. It is a downward spiral that latches on and refuses to let go. Have one, you are likely to experiene yet another,… which will lead to more depression. This is not about dealing with these topics is simply to report about the statistics regarding them. However, these numbers are not a sentence, there is always hope! -Kenn

121 million people worldwide suffer from depression. (World Health Organization)

18 million of these cases are happening in the United States. (The National Institute of Mental Health)

Between 20% and 50% of children and teens struggling with depression have a family history of this struggle and the offspring of depressed parents are more than three times as likely to suffer from depression. (U.S. Surgeon General’s Survey, 1999)

Depression often co-occurs with anxiety disorders and substance abuse, with 30% of teens with depression also developing a substance abuse problem. (NIMH)

2/3 of those suffering from depression never seek treatment.

Untreated depression is the number one cause of suicide, and suicide is the third leading cause of death among teenagers. (NIMH)

About Depression

According to the World Health Organization, depression is one of the leading causes of disability, with approximately 121 million people suffering with depression worldwide. The National Institute of Mental Health states that approximately 18 million people suffer from depression in America alone. Depression does not discriminate across age, race, gender, or class. Among teenagers it is estimated that 20 percent will suffer from depression at some point by the time they reach adulthood. There are also as many as 8.3 percent of teens suffering from depression for at least a year at a time, compared to 5.3 percent of the general population.

About Addiction

The stigma associated with addiction is one of the greatest challenges to recovery. Each year only 10 percent of Americans who need alcohol and drug treatment get the help they need. Yet with treatment and support, people with addiction can lead productive lives.

The Addiction Project has benefited from contributions by the leading experts in the field of addiction. On their website you can find articles written by experts featured in the HBO Addiction series.

About Self-Injury

While not always the case, often untreated depression and other struggles lead to unhealthy ways in which we try and deal with the hurt and pain we are feeling. We try and find anything that we can do to take away the hurt, painful feelings, or negative thoughts we are experiencing. Often the things that we turn to seem to help at first, appearing to provide some of the relief that we need so badly. But, even though they may seem like they help, often they are unhealthy themselves, eventually becoming even greater struggles like addictions such as drugs, alcohol, eating disorders, or self-injury.

Self-injury remained very much a mystery until 1996 when Princess Diana revealed that she had struggled with it. It has become much more visible in society within the last ten years. Self-injury is also termed self-mutilation, self-harm, or self-abuse. It can be defined as the deliberate, repetitive, impulsive, non-lethal harming of one’s self, including but not limited to;

1) cutting

2) burning

3) picking or interfering with wound healing

4) infecting oneself

5) punching/hitting self or objects

6) inserting objects in to skin

7 )bruising or breaking bones and

8) some forms of hair pulling

While these behaviors pose serious risks, they may be symptoms of a problem that can be treated.

Experts estimate that 4% of the population struggle with self-injury. It has the same occurrence between males and females, even though in popular culture it can appear to be more prevalent among girls.

• Emptiness

• Inability to understand or express feelings

• Loneliness

• Fear

• Past Abuse

• Depression

Self-injury, like many addictions, is often a coping mechanism to deal with some manner of internal pain, many who struggle with it also struggle with other issues such as eating disorders and alcohol and drug abuse. While self-injury may be someone’s way to cope with or relieve painful or hard-to-express feelings and is generally NOT a suicide attempt, relief is always temporary, and usually only perpetuates a destructive cycle that continues the struggle. This cycle often means that those who do not get help can become more depressed and shameful, adding to the pain and need for relief, thus perpetuating the cycle.

While self-injury may not be about attempting suicide, the damage done while harming oneself always carries the risk of inflicting serious, and even lethal, regardless of whether suicide is intended or not. The continued cycle of addiction and self-harm, as in substance abuse and other eating disorders, can have a destructive effect on one’s health both physically and mentally, and the struggles can worsen over time without treatment.

(SAFE alternatives –

Self-injury, like alcohol and drug abuse and eating disorders, is addictive, and thus not something that is easy to simply stop. However, while all addictions are very difficult to overcome, help and treatment are out there and available, and recovery and freedom are possible.We believe this is true whether someone’s struggles may be self injury, depression, drugs and alcohol, body image issues, sexual addiction, or other areas of brokenness.

Research shows that those who seek professional help and therapy have a very good chance of recovery, and finding relief from symptoms such as depression and anxiety as well as others. (APA, 1998)

About Suicide

The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that each year approximately one million people die from suicide, which represents a global mortality rate of 16 people per 100,000 or one death every 40 seconds. It is predicted that by 2020 the rate of death will increase to one every 20 seconds.

The WHO further reports that:

In the last 45 years suicide rates have increased by 60% worldwide. Suicide is now among the three leading causes of death among those aged 15-44 (male and female). Suicide attempts are twenty times more frequent than completed suicides.

Although suicide rates have traditionally been highest amongst elderly males, rates among young people have been increasing to such an extent that they are now the group at highest risk in a third of all countries.

Mental health disorders (particularly depression and substance abuse) are associated with more than 90% of all cases of suicide.

Suicide results from many complex sociocultural factors and is more likely to occur during periods of socioeconomic, family and individual crisis (e.g. loss of a loved one, unemployment, struggling with sexual orientation, difficulties with developing one’s identity, disassociation from one’s community or other social/belief group).

The WHO also states that:

In Europe, particularly Eastern Europe, the highest suicide rates are reported for both men and women.

The Eastern Mediterranean Region and Central Asia republics have the lowest suicide rates.

Nearly 30% of all suicides worldwide occur in India and China.

Suicides globally by age are as follows: 55% are aged between 15 to 44 years and 45% are aged 45 years and over.

Youth suicide is increasing at the greatest rate.

In the US, the Center of Disease Control and Prevention reports that:

Overall, suicide is the eleventh leading cause of death for all US Americans, and is the third leading cause of death for young people 15-24 years.

Although suicide is a serious problem among the young and adults, death rates continue to be highest among older adults ages 65 years and over.

Males are four times more likely to die from suicide than are females. However, females are more likely to attempt suicide than are males.

Suicide within minority groups

Research indicates that suicide rates appear to be increasing within native and indigenous populations such as the Native Americans in the United States and Alaska, and the Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island Peoples in Australia and New Zealand.

Suicide rates within migrant communities such as African and East Asian Americans or the Black British community are also of growing concern. Statistics show a rise but in some countries it can be difficult to calculate. For example, in the UK the place of birth is recorded on the death certificate, not ethnicity, therefore reducing data on suicides amongst minority groups.

We believe that rescue is possible, and are committed to communicating hope to others who know the daily struggle of living in a broken world.


New World Tolerance

In the past, the word ‘tolerance’ meant ‘ respectfully agreeing to disagree’ with others, like neighbors, family or friends in regards to difficult or controversial topics.

Today, however, a new understanding of tolerance reigns supreme:  No longer must I merely respect my neighbor’s right to think and act differently from me, I must embrace, celebrate, and promote my neighbor’s way of life, even if that means repudiating my own values in the process.

Now the word has been redefined to ‘all values, all beliefs, all lifestyles, all truth claims are equaly valid and worthy. Denying this makes a person ‘intolerant’, and thus worthy of contempt.

The new definition of ‘tolerance’ makes the Christian claims to exclusivity (John 14:6) ‘intolerant’, which supposedly justifies much of the anti-Christianity in the media and the education system.

But this argument is obviously self-refuting in that if these ‘tolerance’ advocates reject Christianity, then they are not treating this belief as ‘equal’

This is not surprising however, those who teach a tolerance of all beliefs often oppose Christianity. They cannot tolerate the teachings of the Bible saying, “Here’s what’s right and here’s what wrong. ” If the Bible, God’s word gives an absolute, it certainly isn’t tolerated.They believe that we have to tolerate all beliefs and viewpoints as equally valid. Except those of Christianity. Contrary to popular belief, religions do not teach the same things, and, so, they can’t all be true.

“The Christian is most often claimed to be “intolerant” when he refuses to accept and speaks out against “alternative lifestyles,” such as cohabitation or homosexual behavior. Again, this is an improper use of the word “intolerant.” Tolerance does not require acceptance of all ideas as being true, but merely a willingness to hear alternative beliefs. Those who say that Christians should not express their beliefs are actually the ones who are being intolerant, since they are unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression to Christian beliefs.”

Real Life Example

Check out the following quote by someone I know and respect, but don’t agree with 100 percent on in a couple of areas.

“If your belief system is contributing to a culture that is so intolerant that teens are KILLING themselves, I hope that you will study, pray, and examine your heart for wisdom & truth. Happy PRIDE week to my LGBT loved ones!”

She is very passionate and intelligent person. Notice the key buzz word. “Intolerant” I am not convinced by her statement that the different culture so often identified, Christianity, is either intolerant or that it can be held responsible for the tragic deaths of these teens. Any death of a teen, for any reason is a terrible loss.

Again, you can’t miss that the word “INTOLERANT” is used here. It must be their favorite word. Intolerant, intolerance, tolerant…TOLERANCE. This seems to be a Sacred word and the highest ideal that all should be adhere to and embrace.

However if an alternative viewpoint is taken,… you will get an earful!

 You want to talk about intolerance,.. well then… here are few examples of recent intolerance for Christianity:

Why is it those demanding tolerance are tolerant of only those who “CELEBRATE” their beliefs? That’s not very tolerant.

• The Supreme court determining to exclude anyone who prays in Jesus name from a rotation of officials who open city business meetings

• The removal of US military Chaplain Gordon Klingenschmitt, over the issue of praying in Jesus Name

• UCLA’s prohibiting a graduating student from thanking her “Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” in her graduation speech

• A San Diego elementary school created an extra recess period to allow 100 Muslim students to pray, while a federal judge upheld a Knoxville, Ky., jury’s decision that a public school could prohibit its 5th grade Christian students from studying and discussing their Bibles during recess

• The Council on American-Islamic Relations (Los Angeles) requested an investigation of the desecration of a Quran, Islam‘s revealed text, as a hate crime. Conversely, when Palestinians tore up Bibles for toilet paper (May 15, 2002, The Washington Times) there was no outrage, and after a church in the U.S. saved and held fundraisers to afford the cost of buying and shipping requested Bibles in the Pashto and Dari language to an American sergeant in Afghanistan, the Bibles were confiscated, thrown away, and burned. The only official comment about burning the Bibles was this one, by a Defense Department spokesman, “Troops in war zones are required to “burn their trash.”

So as Christians, how should we respond to this. Well like Jesus did, he loved Everyone relentlessly, but he never condoned everything they did, he held them to accountability for their sins, the hot buttons today tend to deal with homosexuality and topics surrounding women, but there are so many more. As Christians, can we really point our finger at someone with a same-sex attraction who avoids church and yet have no problem with the person we sit next to at church who we know leads an immoral lifestyle? We can’t, it doesn’t make us judge and jury, but we need perspective on this don’t we. Neither do we need allow popular opinion direct our path. Do we turn a blind eye to the death of innocent children simply because it’s legal.  We can’t.

Romans 12:2

English Standard Version (ESV)

2 Do not be conformed to this world,[a] but be transformed by  the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may  discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.[b]

When you speak the truth in love,.. you will be insulted, called intolerant and worse. Don’t worry, they didn’t like it when Jesus did it either,… you are in good company.

Final Question

If you don’t like my viewpoint, my perspectives, or my freedom to assert them, does that make you intolerant?

Where Does Life Begin?

It has been approximately one month since I completed further education with quite a diverse group. Within the field of Social Work comes extreme diversity and an expectation of tolerance and acceptance. With some peers, it is not just an acknowledgement for their views, but the demand for one to embrace and advocate for their beliefs at the cost of your own.

So where does this leave us with dealing with those who are in need of help or counseling? While I certainly believe that it is crucial to create a therapeutic alliance (team approach) and meet people where they are, it does not mean I check my values at the door. I must simply be honest about who I realistically can and cannot help. It will be a difficult task; I must admit to work with people who require validation for something that I personally believe is wrong. However my task will be to help them work through the choices, decisions and consequences that life brings them.

One such value that some of my peers would have me check at the door surround a subject that I see as very clear but has become mired in political and emotional debate. It is the subject of Abortion. As I post on this I would love to hear any rational viewpoints, comments and insights. So I ask, where does life begin? This is the lynchpin question that sets apart choice from life.

For you created my inmost being;

you knit me together in my mother’s womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;

your works are wonderful,

I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you

when I was made in the secret place,

when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.

16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;

all the days ordained for me were written in your book

before one of them came to be.



What Mormons Get Right

Although I completely disagree with the Theology and Doctrines of the LDS Church due to far too many reasons to recount here although the chief of them resides around the Person of Jesus Christ, the way of Salvation and the mountain of evidence, or lack of it regarding LDS claims.

However, I do see that there are many things about the LDS people that are certainly worth noting. For all my criticism about the Mormon church as an entity,.. they do not extend to the Mormon people as individuals. Here are some things that the Mormons not only get right, but things that Christians should aspire to as well.

FAMILY-They are deeply invested in the family- The LDS Church has worked hard to be a family friendly environment. More than that it is the backbone of the church. Few churches are as concerned with the importance of the family like the Mormons are. They set aside time weekly for Family Home Evenings to play games, talk, do devotions, etc. This is fantastic! As Christians, we should take note!

CHURCH-They are highly active in the church- Mormons are engaged in church life throughout the week. They devote significant time too all kinds of ministry- Most young men in the LDS church spend a 2 year stint in as missionaries in the church to share about their church and their beliefs. There are numerous opportunities to serve and become involved and it is expected, and although I don’t think the motivation the best, the outcome can be very positive.

RELIGIOUS EDUCATION-The church begins teaching its children from an early age and it is consistent regardless of where you go. The Ward in California will be taught the same lessons and Doctrine as the Ward in Utah. As a teenager, youth are encouraged to attend “seminary” every day BEFORE School. They are classes at the local ward or stake center. They study the Book of Mormon, the Bible, church history, and doctrine and they are rotated over a four-year period. When an LDS teen graduates from high school they are fully immersed in a systematic overview of the faith’s basic beliefs.

EVANGELISM-They care enough about you and me to send people around town, and to our door to share what they sincerely believe is the true word of God. We may not agree with their doctrine, but I cannot fault their conviction! Christians should take note. They do it in part for their “after all they can do” good works beliefs, but they are doing it. Slammed doors, rejections and all! Tens of thousands of Mormon missionaries serve each year in pairs all over the world. I do not think that Christians need to be legalistic about this, however as Christians each of us should be active in sharing our faith. The world is our mission field? Is it being harvested?

TAKING CARE OF THEIR OWN– The LDS Church is known to provide for their members in times of need and crisis. They have set up food pantries providing welfare for their members, especially when they lose a job or some other loss in their family. In turn, those receiving care volunteer time to others and are expected to continue to help when they get back on their feet.

RESPECT SUNDAYS – The practicing LDS family guards their time of worship. They are discouraged from allowing work, sports or other events from distracting them from their activities at church.

MORALITY– Generally speaking, LDS are well-known for having a high moral standard and staying away from a secular lifestyle. Members who keep a “Temple Recommend” (are in good standing with the LDS) do not to partake in drugs, alcohol, coffee or tobacco. They work to remain modest, live honest and fulfill the commandments to the quintessential LDS lifestyle.

More often than not you would be privileged to have a Mormon as a neighbor, boss, teacher, and friend. Again, the fact that I disagree with the theology and doctrine of the LDS Church does not mean that the people of the LDS Church are in any way bad, in fact they put many Christians to shame by the commitment to their works (which I believe is misplaced). Christian, we can learn a lot from the LDS People, they have a great love and commitment for God.

But it comes down to this,.. you are going to follow the Jesus of the Bible or the LDS Church. You will trust Jesus and Grace to save you or Law and Grace… you can’t have it both ways.

Here is what Joseph Smith claimed:

Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of

the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and

otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter−day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their

prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons

under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the

Latter−day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them − something that, to say the

least, is a matter of deep regret to them − namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter

into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was

taken from the earth to the winding−up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of

Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are − I with you

and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last

dispensation − the keys to rule in the spirit−world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power

and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion

and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit−world. He reigns there as

supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim − “Oh, that is

very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!” But it is true.

JD 7:289, Brigham Young, October 9, 1859

This is what Jesus claimed:

“I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6).
Only one can be right! I know I am going with the guy who actually CAME BACK FROM THE DEAD!

And paid the price for me!

2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.Rom 10:2-4

LDS Church Adam God?

This is an excerpt from an ongoing dialogue with an LDS. I find it interesting that doctrines given by LDS prophets / presidents are often changed later. Called myth, unofficial, theory, or unauthorized years later.“There was Brigham Young’s Adam God Doctrine,.. that is now refute and looked down upon.” It was never fully accepted to begin with, which is why it never became doctrine. Brigham Young never attained the 100% consensus in the Twelve that he had to have for the teaching to take the next step to becoming doctrine. Over time, it lost what support it had at the beginning, and in 1904 (after Brigham Young, Jr., the last surviving member of the Twelve who supported the theory as doctrine) passed away, Adam-God Theory was officially repudiated.

MY Statement-“There was Brigham Young’s Adam God Doctrine,.. that is now refuted and looked down upon.”

HOSTS Response -It was never fully accepted to begin with, which is why it never became doctrine. Brigham Young never attained the 100% consensus in the Twelve that he had to have for the teaching to take the next step to becoming doctrine. Over time, it lost what support it had at the beginning, and in 1904 (after Brigham Young, Jr., the last surviving member of the Twelve who supported the theory as doctrine) passed away, Adam-God Theory was officially repudiated.

So when a Prophet of the LDS Church speaks for God in this manner… they vote on whether or not it is truth? Now even Israel may have heard a Prophet and rejected it that is certain,, but they didn’t get an opportunity to VETO it or alter its truth. Lucky the LDS gets the option on whether or not to accept Gods truth.


Let’s look at some background on this issue…

There are some things you need to know.

  • Brigham Young was the Second President and Prophet of the LDS Church.
  • Biblical standards for a prophet are high: Deut 18:17-22 17 The LORD said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. 19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.” 21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.


Let’s look at this. Vs 18a- God raises him up. 18b- God gives him the words to speak. 18c- He will speak to the people the words of God. 19a- God will hold account anyone who ignores the words of the Prophet (the words of God). 20- If a prophets speaks out of turn, Israel was to END HIS LIFE. 21- How to identify if a prophet is speaking for God? 22- If his the words of the prophet fail to come true. It isn’t from God! Now see verse 20.’

  • Rock and a hard Place-If the LDS want to claim Young as a true prophet, he must also accept his Adam-God teaching since a true prophet must have a correct theology concerning God (Deut. 13:1-3 and Deut. 18:17-22).OR….. If Young’s teaching is not accepted, then the Mormon must conclude that Brigham Young was a false prophet. The Mormon can’t have it both ways.
  • ·         HOWEVER,….Young had a high opinion of his sermons- Apparently Young was confident with his message for on January 2, 1870, he said, “I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture” (Journal of Discourses 13:95). Brigham would repeat this again in October of the same year (Journal of Discourses 13:264).

Now compare this to what the Host has written once again? Do you see any inconsistencies?

Following a long one-paragraph introduction, Young proclaimed that Adam was Michael the Archangel, and that he was also the Ancient of Days. Young went on to conclude that Adam was, in fact, “our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do.

Please also know that in Mormonism,… Living Prophets hold more authority than dead prophets due to the fact that they are receiving New Revelation.

For years Mormon authorities have attempted to downplay the severity of Young’s statements. It is not uncommon to hear Latter-day Saints excuse Young’s conclusions by saying he was either misunderstood or even misquoted.

LDS Presidents Joseph Fielding Smith and Spencer W. Kimball attributed their predecessor’s ideas to being merely a “theory.” In his book Doctrines of Salvation, Smith discounted Young’s message by saying, “in all probability the sermon was erroneously transcribed!” (1:96).

SPIN and EXCUSES                                                                                                                            

It would be difficult for the Mormon to prove Young was only theorizing by the simple fact that Young, in this sermon, clearly claims his teachings to be “doctrine.”

In his journal dated February 19, 1854, Wilford Woodruff, who would later become Mormonism’s fourth president, wrote that Brigham Young “said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ — Our God was no more or less than ADAM, Michael the Arkangel (sic).”

Apparently Young’s position on the matter was still an issue with some LDS members; otherwise he would not have had to ask, “How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which is revealed to them, and which God revealed to me — namely that Adam is our father and God…Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or ever will come upon the earth” (Sermon delivered on June 8, 1873.

Printed in the Deseret Weekly News, June 18, 1873.)

How can a Latter-day Saint maintain this was just Brigham’s opinion when he insisted God gave him the teaching?

 CANT we all just get along?

12th President Spencer W. Kimball

“We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some of the General Authorities of past generations. Such, for instance, is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine” (Spencer W. Kimball, “Adam-God Theory Denounced,” Church News, October 9, 1976, p. 11).

— Note that just 10 presidents later,… 103 years later,…. It went from words spoken by a Prophet of God,.. to words “allegedly” spoken, and yet in the same quote,.. a false doctrine. So tell me who is it that speaks false doctrines. A false prophet. So yet again,…

If the LDS want to claim Young as a true prophet, he must also accept his Adam-God teaching since a true prophet must have a correct theology concerning God (Deut. 13:1-3 and Deut. 18:17-22).OR….. If Young’s teaching is not accepted, then the Mormon must conclude that Brigham Young was a false prophet. The Mormon can’t have it both ways.

But Adam is not only God,.. he is also Michael the Arch Angel it would seem… man I need a tour guide to keep this stuff straight.

Basically there is no agreement or consensus on what is or is not scripture, doctrine, official or authoritative, and this is just one of many examples!

 This sermon can be found in the Journal of Discourses 1:50-51.

 My next sermon will be to both Saint and sinner. One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day. It is in regard to the character of the well-beloved Son of God, upon which subject the Elders of Israel have conflicting views. Our God and Father in heaven, is a being of tabernacle, or, in other words, He has a body, with parts the same as you and I have; and is capable of showing forth His works to organized beings, as, for instance, in the world in which we live, it is the result of the knowledge and infinite wisdom that dwell in His organized body. His son Jesus Christ has become a personage of tabernacle, and has a body like his father. The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Lord, and issues forth from Himself, and may properly be called God’s minister to execute His will in immensity; being called to govern by His influence and power; but He is not a person of tabernacle as we are, and as our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ are. The question has been, and is often, asked, who it was that begat the Son of the Virgin Mary. The infidel world have concluded that if what the Apostles wrote about his father and mother be true, and the present marriage discipline acknowledged by Christendom be correct, then Christians must believe that God is the father of an illegitimate son, in the person of Jesus Christ! The infidel fraternity teach that to their disciples. I will tell you how it is. Our Father in Heaven begat all the spirits that ever were, or ever will be, upon this earth; and they were born spirits in the eternal world. Then the Lord by His power and wisdom organized the mortal tabernacle of man. We were made first spiritual, and afterwards temporal.

 Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken–HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, and thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did not appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal. When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father, and so on in succession. I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone. I have heard men preach upon the divinity of Christ, and exhaust all the wisdom they possessed. All Scripturalists, and approved theologians who were considered exemplary for piety and education, have undertaken to expound on this subject, in every age of the Christian era; and after they have done all, they are obliged to conclude by exclaiming “great is the mystery of godliness,” and tell nothing.

 It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

 Again, they will try to tell how the divinity of Jesus is joined to his humanity, and exhaust all their mental faculties, and wind up with this profound language, as describing the soul of man, “it is an immaterial substance!” What a learned idea! Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.

 I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now remember from this time forth, and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. I will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon this subject, when I replied, to this idea–“if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children, to be palmed upon the Elders by the people, bringing the Elders into great difficulties.”

 Treasure up these things in your hearts. In the Bible, you have read the things I have told you to-night; but you have not known what you did read. I have told you no more than you are conversant with; but what do the people in Christendom, with the Bible in their hands, know about this subject? Comparatively nothing.

Campus Debate

“Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, you believe in GOD ?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Professor : Is GOD good ?

Student : Sure.

Professor: Is GOD all powerful ?

Student : Yes.

Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?

(Student was silent.) Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Is satan good ?

Student : No.

Professor: Where does satan come from ?

Student : From … GOD …

Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?

Student : Yes.

Professor: So who created evil ?

(Student did not answer.)

Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, who created them ?

(Student had no answer.)

Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD?

Student : No, sir.

Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?

Student : No , sir.

Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.

Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student : Yes.

Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Professor: Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

Professor: Yes.

Student : No, sir. There isn’t.

(The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?

Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?

Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.

Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class was in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?

(The class broke out into laughter. )

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.

Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.


By the way, that student was EINSTEIN. “

I was informed it  WASNT good ol Albert,.. but it is funny non the less, as well as a good lesson in basic apologetic. Christians DO have a right to speak up in class and there is no reason not to do so!

Questions to ask Mormons Pt 7: Which Teachings are “Official”?


In a Nut Shell, too often when talking with Mormons a topic comes up on doctrine or some issue and when it conflicts with the Bible or even the teachings of their leaders or “Standard Works” they say that it is “Not Official”. This plausible deniability gets them out of many things and it is important to get LDS to pinpoint where a CONSISTENT standard of truth, such as we have in the Bible. With Mormonism it is ever-changing feeling, vote or opinion.

Another critical question to ask members of the LDS when you engage in conversation with them lies in the area of what they hold to be authoritative? When a Mormon establishes their foundation of truth they hold to three sources truth by revelation: (1) Past Leaders, (2) Current Leaders, and (3) the “Standard Works.”


In considering past leaders, they hold to “Open Revelation”, basically each president speaks for God. Although att their general conference they “Speak for God” what they speak about must be voted on for it to be “official”. However such past presidents such as Brigham Young said that anytime he taught it was directly from God and inspired by God.


Brigham Young said every Sermon he gave was scripture.

I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom, as I know the road to my office. It is just as plain and easy. The Lord is in our midst. He teaches the people continually. I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. ” (Source – Journal of Discourses, Vol.13, p.95, Brigham Young, January 2, 1870)  I would assume if I were a LDS member that Youngs teaching, would be “Scripture” and therefore be counted the same as the “Standard Works”, but they are not. For example, the Adam God Doctrine that the LDS Church has rejected (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:50-51).

Think it is a fluke here is the tip of the iceberg:

Brigham Young said you are “Damned” if you deny polygamy. “Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266). Also, “The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269).

Brigham Young said he had never given any counsel that was wrong. “I am here to answer. I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people. If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 161).

Brigham Young said you can’t get to Celestial heaven unless Joseph Smith’s allows it. “…no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 289).

Brigham Young said that there were inhabitants on the the Moon. Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? When we view its face we may see what is termed “the man in the moon,” and what some philosophers declare are the shadows of mountains. But these sayings are very vague, and amount to nothing; and when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized. (Journal of Discourses/Volume 13/The Gospel—The One-man Power)

Brigham Young said that there were inhabitants on the Sun. (The History of Oliver B. Huntington, p. 10, typed copy, Marriott Library, University of Utah)

And he is just one of sixteen prophets who “speak” for God. I hope that puts it in perspective. 


However today “Living Prophets” trump dead ones. You can find this on The LDS website cited below with more explanation and detail. So whatever Brigham Young said,.. you can forget it,.. if the LDS Church no longer chooses to hold to it for whatever reason, be it political, cultural, legal, historical, genetic or other reasons, they just throw it out, but they cannot really completely throw the Prophet, under the bus, as this becomes a sticky issue for the LDS Church. Neither do the consider him a false prophet,… perplexing! Here are the facts.

Living Prophets trump dead ones

The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet. The living prophet has the power of TNT. By that I mean “Today’s News Today.” God’s revelations to Adam did not instruct Noah how to build the ark. Noah needed his own revelation. Therefore, the most important prophet so far as you and I are concerned is the one living in our day and age to whom the Lord is currently revealing His will for us…Beware of those who would pit the dead prophets against the living prophets, for the living prophets always take precedence.”

(Okay, can I ask the obvious question here,…if today’s living prophet Thomas S. Monson says so, say can we ignore Ezra Taft Benson?,… okay sorry for the interruption now back to the citations)

Where does this come from? 

The 14 Fundamentals in Following the Prophet  / 13th President of the LDS Church (As Stated by Ezra Taft Benson Feb 26, 1980)

  1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
  2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works. (This means their SCRIPTURE!)
  3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
  4. The prophet will never lead the Church astray.
  5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
  6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture.
  7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
  8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
  9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
  10. The prophet may be involved in civic matters.
  11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
  12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
  13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency — the highest quorum in the Church.
  14. The prophet and the presidency — the living prophet and the First Presidency — follow them and be blessed; reject them and suffer.

(Taken from:


The Standard works are Scripture. That would imply that they are inspired, Holy and from God. Here is what Joseph Smith believed about these “inspired” works.

  • Joseph Smith – Book of Mormon contains the “fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also” Doctrine and Covenants 20:8-9 (April 1830)
  • Joseph Smith – “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461 (1841)
  • Joseph Smith – “Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled. What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; … but all shall be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.” Doctrine and Covenants 1:37-38 (November 1, 1831)
  • What Scriptures Do We Have Today — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accepts four books as scripture: the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. These books are called the standard works of the Church. The inspired words of our living prophets are also accepted as scripture.” Gospel Principles, p. 52 (1992)

Want to see spin in action check out the post on Adam God out soon!

In short, when the LDS Church does not want to deal with a real issue,.. they dodge it with plausible deniability. If they do not want to “own” a teaching they simply say it is not Official and feel that this lets them off the hook. It’s easy its common its standard and,…. well truth be told,.. it ROCKS!!!

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